How to Follow God's Will (Without a Map): Levi & Jennie Lusko

Dave Wilson: All right. So, as you think back on marrying me,
Ann Wilson: Yes.
Dave Wilson: your biggest thought was I will never marry what?
Ann Wilson: A pastor and go to Detroit.
Dave Wilson: And a bald guy.
Ann Wilson: Well, I never thought about that, but that could have been fun too.
Dave Wilson: So, how did that work out? Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Anne Wilson.
Dave Wilson: And I'm Dave Wilson and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. So, how did that work out?
Ann Wilson: It's so funny cuz I thought these are the things that would be horrible if I did them and now I'm living it and it has been the greatest journey of my life.
Dave Wilson: It's been an amazing journey and
Ann Wilson: And it's because of Jesus because he's taken us and we just
Dave Wilson: No, it's because of me. Come on.
Ann Wilson: Oh, oh, I'm sorry. That's right. That's you, honey.
Dave Wilson: Yeah, it's because of Jesus. I bring that up because we've got a couple today that's lived a similar journey in terms of Levi and Jenny Lesko have started a church in Montana.
Ann Wilson: And welcome to Family Life Today, you guys.
Levi Lusko: Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Ann Wilson: So fun.
Dave Wilson: By the way, as many people know, not only are you pastors of Fresh Life Church in Montana and Wyoming and Utah and all kinds of different places, which you have to tell us how that happened, but also authors, prolific authors of incredible books. We're going to talk today about Through the Eyes of a Lion.
Ann Wilson: So, take us back, Levi. You're a PK. Your dad was a pastor. Where did that begin? Like, did they grow up in the church? Take us back to that.
Levi Lusko: My parents were both radically saved in the midst of the hippie movement. They're both first generation believers. Their families before them atheism and secular is intellectual and my mom's mom was married and divorced three times. My dad was raised by a stepfather and his mother. He never knew his dad and you know, he was told by his stepfather, he called him his dad. He put a $20 bill down on the table one day and said, that's the only God you ever need to worry about. Basically, that was the only education in spirituality he was given is almighty dollar. So, no upbringing of faith to speak of or really love or affection for either of them on both sides. And so they just had to find their own way in the world. My dad got saved in Hawaii. He was there to join the the Greenpeace saving the whales and my mom got saved, I believe, through university and she and him had dated before they were and lived together before they got saved, went their separate ways, both found Jesus, ended up coming back together, got married, super involved in in church ministry and church planning. They ended up later getting divorced. Some things surfaced from both of them had lots of of course trauma, especially my mom from things that she faced before they came together. but so they're no longer together, but I had a very happy life, grew up in the church knowing Jesus my whole life as a second generation Christian and so very different than them. And since I was 2 years old, felt the call of God on my life to be a pastor like my dad is how I used to always say it. And I've never really done anything else but that.
Dave Wilson: So, if we would have seen you in high school or maybe college, would we look at you and go, oh, there's a future pastor? You're living a life that would make me think he's going into ministry.
Levi Lusko: Well, I mean, I was not without my own my dips in sanctification the sanctification journey to be sure, but I preached my first sermon at 14. I mean, I would get dropped off after school at church and serve in the youth ministry, help plan summer camps and mission trips and I had a real significant challenge, a crisis of faith my senior year in high school where for a few months I mean, I was the chaplain of my Christian high school as a volunteer. So, I mean, I was literally you would have thought future pastor for sure, but that for about a three or four month period I really wandered away and thought you know, it was kind of one of those proving times. I had been given my whole life up to this and it kind of had to come to do I really believe this? Is really what I want to do? And dabbled in in drinking a little bit during that period and really had a wake up call of this is you know, I was running. It was my Jonah moment and I think it was mostly just feeling like that panic that like maybe I made a mistake and you know, maybe I missed out and I realized through those few moments of of sin of kind of like a prodigal son coming to my senses realizing how good I had it at the father's table and and really kind of never looked back from following wholeheartedly Jesus.
Ann Wilson: And Jenny, what about your faith? When did that become really important to you?
Jennie Lusko: I grew up in a Christian home and my I remember when I was seven and I had seen the gospel presentation at church with Salty, the singing song books.
Ann Wilson: Yeah, Salty. Our kids love Salty.
Levi Lusko: And yes, and I remember my that night I remember my dad praying with me and accepted Jesus, understood that I was a sinner and I needed and Jesus died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead. Like I remember understanding that to some extent when I was seven and then it's really kind of been that journey of what it has looked like throughout different seasons and stages of my life to love Jesus and to follow him and I'm so grateful but when I was in middle school, we were super plugged into our church and I just immediately got plugged into small group and going to church and really kind of having my people at church and loving it and mission trips. I feel like mission trips where we would go to Mexico every summer and we thought we were doing something good for other people but ultimately looking back I see how God was just getting a hold of my heart and and so grateful for that and then just journey through high school and boys that was always a struggle wanting to be liked by a boy, wanting to like a boy and but when I was 10 was when my mom brought me to this purity conference. It's called a Garden Enclosed and I remember hearing for the first time that God wanted me to save sex until marriage and to save myself for my future husband. I didn't even know exactly what that meant but I knew that I wanted God's best for my life. So, I remember at that point really having that kind of goal of like I I want to live my life for God and I want to honor him and I want to save myself and my husband one day whenever that is and what's so sweet was that was that age seven and 10 were very significant moments with God and it kind of like just led me through and but I still had struggles with wanting to be liked by boys and stuff like that but it was just really special when I was 19 and I felt like God was calling me to New Mexico and to be a part of their missions internship there and it's so funny cuz my whole even through high school like I wanted to be a missionary and I always thought I was going to be a missionary in Africa or Asia. So, I literally missions moved me from Monterey, California to Albuquerque, New Mexico and Levi and I met like right away and but I had made a decision to not date that whole year just to focus on the Lord and not have any distractions and so we met halfway through that year. In looking back it's just so special because God truly gave us the gift of a foundation of friendship. And so where my whole life I even from kindergarten on I've always wanted to be liked by a boy and need to have that relationship with a boy and here I am. I meet I meet the man I'm supposed to marry but there's the the decision I had made to not date. So, we literally were forced to be friends and I'm so looking back we're so grateful for that but um but then we started dating right after my internship and got married and so that's kind of and my my parents were Catholic. I was actually baptized as a baby as in the Catholic Church but they gave both give their lives to Christ when I was five, I think. And so that that was kind of a legacy for me to walk in and since then I mean, my parents aren't married anymore either but I just they laid out a good foundation for me and now so grateful.
Dave Wilson: So, here you are and I love to hear how you end up in Montana. You know, I know that you had sort of a a youth pastor or maybe teaching pastor job in Southern California but then you get this call. So, tell us that little story cuz
Ann Wilson: And it was And you said it was kind of a cush job.
Levi Lusko: Yes, meaning you know, didn't have a lot of responsibilities outside of communicating a message, which is in it of itself a challenge of course. Anybody who's ever had to preach is it's it's hard work, you know. Takes time if you're going to do it well and you have to study.
Jennie Lusko: Right. Yeah. And Levi's always put his heart and soul and messages. So, even when we were leading youth group in New Mexico together, he would pour time and effort and energy and prayer into these messages for these students. So, I looking back even seeing the the love and the care and effort and energy going into messages back then that's just kind of been a
Levi Lusko: I mean, you guys know it's hard work, right? So, but I didn't have any of the other responsibilities that to make ministry more challenging. You know, dealing with teams, dealing with the the burden of finance, HR, all the things that really bring headaches and complexities to ministry. And yet we kind of always deep down knew that one day that we we had the desired, you know, kind of entrepreneurial mission we like we said we both got our start in missions and that mission that missionary spirit that is at the core of church planting. You guys are church planters. You understand that. And so we kind of felt like the time was going to come when we would probably feel that call and we weren't in a rush or hurry. We were always under good leaders and so we knew the time would come and God would show us and we'd be, you know, given the the go ahead to go do that. Well, it came sooner than expected because the senior pastor of our church left and when that happened the board looked to us to start doing the teaching. And in that season we were fine with it but then and the church was maybe 2,000 people. So, it was a good size church. It felt small compared to the churches the the church I grew up in specifically but you know, it's in America that is a big church and and I was okay, yeah, I'm excited actually was I was excited to teach in the main sanctuary as opposed to just the student ministry. I was nervous it wouldn't work so I just sort of gave the same student messages I would give and low and behold it worked. It connected. The people were like, that's great, you know, truth is truth, right? It reached them. But then the board said, hey, this is going well. The church is growing and responding well to your gift. We'd like to make this permanent and make this in like the arrangement that you'll be the teaching pastor and someone else will make the decisions. And that was when we felt pause because it was fine as an a temporary arrangement but to be in a situation where we had no leadership stay and we just were there to show up, give a message and then shut up. We didn't feel as comfortable with that because you know, we'd have to basically prostitute a teaching gift to the exclusion of any other abilities we have, not to say anything about the kind of idea of the authority of the pulpit should be matched with vision and leadership you know, say so cuz how how I think the communication of God's word should set the pace for the vision and the execution of the church. And so to have someone else doing that it just didn't sit right with our spirit. And so we began the journey of praying about what God might have next for us as opposed to just staying there but not really believing that that was what God called us to do because it was a good paycheck. We had a great life. We lived a mile from the beach, had season passes to Disneyland, you know, and it's it's Southern California. Who doesn't want to live there, right?
Ann Wilson: So, when you say cush that was kind of
Levi Lusko: That's why we called it a cush job.
Ann Wilson: Okay.
Levi Lusko: Yeah. Uh we could have very much stayed on autopilot there and given a message once a week and you know, basically just but we wouldn't have felt right. And we knew that if God called us to something else to say no to that would be to miss an opportunity even though it seemed like the path less taken. And for us that that ultimately led us to Montana which didn't feel like suffering because I grew up in the ski towns of Colorado and I loved that uh but it just wasn't the metropolitan area that we always kind of deep down suspected we would end up in Los Angeles or New York City or Chicago or something and you know, it was mountain town, small little area and and yet it was what God kind of put into our hearts.
Dave Wilson: And so you started Fresh Life and I 'm guessing you didn't start with 1,000 people. Probably sort of small and it starts to grow. Tell us a little bit
Levi Lusko: Yeah, 14 14 people came. 14 We met above a bar in an upper room. We've got
Ann Wilson: 14 Did you have kids at the time?
Levi Lusko: We had one and Jenny was pregnant.
Ann Wilson: But I didn't know I was pregnant until we moved to Montana with Lenny. We were pregnant. Wow.
Levi Lusko: Okay. Right when we got here we found that out.
Jennie Lusko: But it's interesting because today there are church planning like organizations that help people. Okay, so you want to plan a church in Chicago. We're going to help you. Here's here's what you do. Here's finances. Like so there's a organization that can come behind you and support you. We didn't have such a thing and so
Levi Lusko: Well, all of our friends were old who had planted churches so we would ask them what they did and they would say, well, you know, we started duplicating tape cassettes. It was like, no, I don't think that's going to help us.
Jennie Lusko: Mhm.
Levi Lusko: All literally all our friends were 50s and 60s so their frame of reference was, you know, three decades prior which is all principles of true. I mean, meaning people and connection and all that but as far as like you know, so literally we were taking out ads in the newspaper, you know, we we just didn't know what to do but the cool thing was God you know, it was kind of like that old commercial you you asked for it, you got it. We felt like you asked for an adventure, you got adventure, baby. You wanted to use faith, here you go. And you wanted to be a leader, well, here's a chance to lead. And it was it was a beautiful chance for us to develop into who God wanted us to be.
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Dave Wilson: Most of our listeners are married. They've got families, blended families, you name it. I 'm guessing it could have been somewhat difficult on your marriage at that time, starting a new thing and small and new thing. Talk about that a little bit. What
Ann Wilson: Stressful. Pregnant.
Dave Wilson: What was it like for your marriage?
Levi Lusko: Honestly, I didn't I mean, I will just speak for you. I thought that that was one challenge that really wasn't too hard for us. We bonded together. We were we were really in it together, us against the world.
Jennie Lusko: Yeah, it wasn't like Levi felt this is what God's calling us to do and then I was like, okay, and reluctantly going it was like, no, yeah, this is a this is what God's calling us to do. I feel like well, we were only we had been married three years
Levi Lusko: Yeah.
Jennie Lusko: and so I mean, we were new newly married and then Olivia was 15 months old and then I was unknowingly pregnant with Lenya.
Ann Wilson: And how old were you guys at the time? 25, I think.
Jennie Lusko: 25
Dave Wilson: Yeah.
Jennie Lusko: Yeah.
Levi Lusko: But again, but like I said, we we we had we'd been in what we were doing for a long time. Like I said, preaching at 14 you know, we both had planned and led mission trips and so
Jennie Lusko: Right. Right. You were made to do this.
Levi Lusko: Yeah, honestly, and it hasn't felt like we were thrust in anything that God hadn't prepared us for.
Jennie Lusko: Right. Like it was definitely hard and I think the bigger step of moving to Montana wasn't as hard as just the daily. And I think that even my in my life I feel like that is um definitely more of a struggle. It's like, oh yeah, the big step of faith that's actually easier to trust God in cuz it 's like it 's big thing and he'll take care of it versus the daily leading and in marriage and
Levi Lusko: Yeah, like the little I remember like one of the biggest challenges I remember was we we had we failed to turn a foreman sooner enough after our second daughter's birth and so the health insurance rejected her entire first year on being on our on our health insurance. And so her birth and all the subsequent things and then she had RSV so she was hospitalized. We ended up having to pay out of pocket for all that and you know, we had the funds to live early on very simply and so the unexpected medical bills that presented stress that was unique to that season of our lives and I remember looking back going you know, that that really was challenging to trust God through.
Jennie Lusko: Yeah.
Ann Wilson: And so your church started to grow quickly, rapidly. I mean, God was really moving. And your family started to grow too. Take us to that point when you have four kids.
Levi Lusko: Oh goodness gracious, like rabbits. Cold winters, got to stay warm. That's how we had all those kids, you know, how do you get how else are you going to stay warm, right? Well, the church grew and and soon we had and I know you guys have story similar trajectory of of just growth and new cities and opportunities and we had multiple campuses and then multiple kids. You had four daughters and then a little a little boy came way way way way way later but um uh it was very much like every day a new thing and it it was a beautiful we we've always said like the church plant journey was like skiing in front of an avalanche and God's Holy Spirit was in it and people are getting saved and touched and you know, lives are being impacted and that's been kind of the the fun beautiful thing watching all the kids. Before COVID we were we had just opened our 13th location which was in a prison, in the state prison in Montana which we had a population every week gathering to watch and yeah, such a fun blur looking back on it all.
Ann Wilson: Mhm.
Dave Wilson: And obviously, you know, we have a a devastating moment coming in your marriage and in your life. But before we talk about that, talk about calling, you know, as a couple cuz you've talked about your call, how do you know? How do you sense what God wants you to do?
Levi Lusko: Well, I I think that asking of the question is where the journey begins. It's one of those paths that you don't find until you start trying to walk it. And so I think where we begin in scripture is always with the general will of God. God's will is that none should perish so am I saved? God's will is that I'm sanctified and sexually pure, that I'm thankful and rejoicing always. So, like when we start to do those those sorts of things I think the the more specific you know, tangential areas of this school, that brand of toothpaste, those things sort of God as you're walking in the general will puts in your heart the desires that he wants you to walk in. And so I think it was Augustine who said, love God and do whatever you want. And there is some truth and some freedom to that. God's call is whatever you do to the glory as you walk with him in relationship. And Colossians says, the peace of God will rule in your hearts to which you're called and be thankful. So, I think there's a sense in which you really can say, look, I'm saved, I'm not in gross sin, I'm I'm serving, tithing, giving, you know, all these things that I'm supposed to be doing. And now I get to do whatever I want. So, is God just is my desire to take this job? Great, take it. Do I do I desire that sport in school? Amazing, go for it. And I think there's a freedom in it that where you view God's will more as a launchpad than a lockdown.
Jennie Lusko: It's good. I think I think also in the marriage where both the husband and the wife are following hard after God individually cuz I think when we're hungry for God on our own and then we're together asking God to lead us and what he has for us and the daily things too, it's easier because we're both listening for God's voice and we're both wanting to be strong in our relationship with him individually that it makes it easier and it takes the pressure off of each other to try to like, well, Levi, you're leading me so you have to make all the decisions but it's like, no, I'm I'm also hearing from God and there is such a peace right now in this decision. And honestly, like there's such beauty in that when we're both following Jesus and loving him and then letting him lead us together.
Ann Wilson: As I listen to you guys what I what I hear and what I see our lives that are just surrendered. Like God, here we are. We'll do anything and go anywhere for you because we want to make your name known. And I think that's the key and maybe maybe you're listening and your spouse isn't on the same page spiritually but you still can go before the father who hears every single prayer as you call out to him. He's like, I hear you. I hear your passion. I I want to answer you. And so even if we go before the father and we go before Jesus and Lord, I want to live the life that you've called me to. He's not going to say, nah-uh, I'm not going to do that. He's like, I'm all about that. I want you to live because I've created you and I've put gifts in you and strengths in you to bring glory to my name and it will bring you joy. And as I look at you two, that's what you've done. You've surrendered, you've heard the call and you're just kind of walking this path of what he's placed before you because he's put so many gifts into you.
Levi Lusko: Yeah.
Dave Wilson: And I and I'd also sense that it's a joint calling
Ann Wilson: Yeah.
Dave Wilson: that he calls the two of you. I know that when we got married I knew that my call would be our call. It isn't God calling me or calling in. We're married. We're one. He's going to call us together. Uh obviously we've walked a similar path in terms of planning churches but I think that's true for every couple. When you're married it isn't a separate. It's a calling as a partnership for kingdom impact.
Ann Wilson: Mhm.
Dave Wilson: True?
Ann Wilson: Right.
Dave Wilson: Yeah, and that's that's true regardless of how it actually works out mechanically. You know, I think if someone listening if their their husband is you know, on the road or whatever it's like you're still a part of it even though you might be behind the scenes. You know, um someone asked John Glenn what it was like to be the you know, the man who orbited the earth for the first time and he said, well, I got to actually be there but there was 400,000 people in NASA who put me out there, you know. So, I think there's you know, maybe in our roles we get to see serve more publicly. You're on the radio together. We lead as a church planning couple together but for the couple who maybe they the mom stays home or whatever like you still are a part of what God called your husband or your wife to do even if you serve in a way that's unseen. As Paul says, the hand needs the eye, the eye needs the foot, etc.
Jennie Lusko: Yeah. Yeah. I think knowing that it changes too cuz like for us there's a season where I'm I was literally home all the time with our kids and homeschooling and you know, all that stuff and and now it it just looks a little bit different in this season but knowing that it's not like just because it's one way it's going to always be that way but being sensitive to the spirit leading and and Levi also was so amazing in leading in that way too of like giving me more of like kind of pushing me cuz I'm more like reluctant leader, I guess. And so he's more like, no, I want you to say something or I want you to choose this or I want like and so that has also been super helpful for me as being more of a no, actually I like being in the background and I don't want to to do anything like that. So, that's been helpful just in even in our relationship too.
Dave Wilson: Yeah, and I and I also think you know, when you when you think about calling especially as we're talking about a married couple, you think God's call will not involve pain. It will not involve loss. And as we step into the rest of your story we're going to find out sometimes it doesn't go the way we think and it's going to be really really hard. What a great day with Levi and Jenny.
Ann Wilson: Man, this whole topic is something we don't hear very often. I think it's so good. Uh their book is called Through the Eyes of a Lion, Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power.
Dave Wilson: And you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com. And we'll be back with them again tomorrow.
Ann Wilson: Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry. 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.